. this is one of the great frustrations that chris matthews had and ed and the entire panel at msnbc. they were so angry and i think for good reason because there were basic -- >> joe, this is an important question. it's not just the analysts, it's the average american had the answers for that. clearly, this was not like chris matthews knew and he didn't know. every person i talked to said, well, why didn't he say this? he could not ha he couldn't not have the answers. >> hold on. this isn't a debate or chris or ed. this is a debate to win the election. i'm sorry, it may have been disappointing, but there was something else going on. you have the jobs numbers coming out at 8:30 this morning in just a couple of hours. you have a lot of other things at play, and he's in a certain position in this race. there must have been, as flummoxing as it was to watch, a strategy. what was it? >> i haven't said this for a very long time. i'll say it again, though. debates are where you show your depth of understanding about politics. i've seen 1,000 debates. i've participated in, you know, scores of debates.